| ronchilla_ | where can i find a change log for pylons 0.9.5? | 00:18 |
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| ronchilla_ | actually i'm just trying to find out if mako is now the default template as opposed to myghty | 00:19 |
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| pjenvey__ | ronchilla_ - it's not, mako is a req now. it'll probably be the default next version | 00:43 |
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| pjenvey__ | changelog is here http://pylonshq.com/project/pylonshq/browser/Pylons/tags/0.9.5/CHANGELOG | 00:44 |
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| ronchilla_ | pjenvey__: thank you | 00:44 |
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| ronchilla_ | pjenvey__: why is it that every time i upgrade pylons i have to recreate my project ? | 00:45 |
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| pjenvey__ | you can run paster create on your existing project | 00:49 |
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| pjenvey__ | it'll prompt you for diffs | 00:49 |
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| ronchilla_ | ah ok! | 00:49 |
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| ronchilla_ | you are a life saver! my project has grown large and i was just groaning at the amount of time required to recreate the projects | 00:50 |
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| pjenvey__ | sure | 00:51 |
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| pjenvey__ | I don't think that's really documented anywhere, maybe in paste doc | 00:51 |
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| pjenvey__ | we should describe it somewhere | 00:52 |
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| TownCrier | pylons: Ticket #230 (Document project upgrades) created <http://pylonshq.com/project/pylonshq/ticket/230> | 00:54 |
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| ronchilla__ | Trouble with Pylons 0.9.5 on Windows | 02:08 |
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| ronchilla__ | paster server --reload development.ini crashes with a traceback: WindowsError: [Error 22] The filename, directory name, or volume label syntax is incorrect | 02:09 |
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| ronchilla__ | has anybody else experienced this? it seems to be a paste issue | 02:10 |
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| xorAxAx | there was some thread on the mailing list | 02:10 |
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| xorAxAx | of pylons | 02:10 |
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| wiggy | 0.9.5? | 02:11 |
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| ronchilla__ | cant find it... | 02:11 |
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| xorAxAx | wiggy: ? | 02:12 |
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| * wiggy hadn't noticed 0.9.5 was released | 02:12 |
| ronchilla__ | xorAxAx: can you tell me the name of the thread | 02:13 |
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| ronchilla__ | wiggy: it was released last night or early this morning | 02:13 |
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| ronchilla__ | i've found the problem | 02:21 |
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| ronchilla__ | its a paste problem; something to do with spaces in the path of the python executable | 02:22 |
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| ronchilla__ | i think ianbicking discussed it on this thread yesterday... not sure but i think he mentioned a patch? | 02:24 |
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| elefth | ronchilla__, | 02:53 |
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| elefth | <CIA-10> ianb * r6450 Script/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Fix problem with Windows and paster serve, and Windows with Python in a path with spaces. Also comment out an inadvertent test failure | 02:54 |
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| ronchilla__ | elefth: thanx, i'll get it from svn athough my patch works! | 04:25 |
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| elefth | :-) | 04:26 |
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| CIA-22 | pylons: thejimmyg * r1945 /Pylons/trunk/pylons/templating.py: Fixed so that a KeyError is not raised if format isn't passed | 08:23 |
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| nathan^ | Great news | 08:35 |
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| nathan^ | I got my mod_rewrite problem all taken care of | 08:35 |
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| etrepum | benbangert: I'll have to find the pricing sheet | 10:58 |
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| benbangert | weird that its not on the site ;) | 10:58 |
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| benbangert | pylonshq.com is back btw | 10:58 |
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| steg | is the wiki there going to stay? | 10:59 |
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| benbangert | hmm, server wasn't rebooted, maybe a router blew up | 10:59 |
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| benbangert | no, all the content is being moved to the new wiki | 10:59 |
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| steg | or will everything go to the new docs.pythonweb.org ? | 10:59 |
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| steg | cool | 10:59 |
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| creiht | etrepum: That's what I don't like about 95%, there isn't an easy way to calculate what your BW billing is going to be | 11:02 |
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| creiht | It's too magical :) | 11:02 |
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| etrepum | creiht: it's not really that magical, it's pretty easy to predict after you've started using it | 11:03 |
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| etrepum | if you assume an even spread $.25/GB is $79.10 per mbps/month | 11:04 |
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| etrepum | which is what cachefly's published prices look like | 11:04 |
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| benbangert | so if you push an even spread of 10 TB a month out? | 11:05 |
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| etrepum | $2556.71 | 11:05 |
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| benbangert | thats more than cachefly | 11:05 |
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| benbangert | I think we pay around 1800 for 10TB in a month | 11:06 |
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| etrepum | that's what $0.25 * 10 * 1024 is (plus some roundoff error) | 11:06 |
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| benbangert | sure, but you can get deals if you push a lot ;) | 11:06 |
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| etrepum | yeah of course | 11:06 |
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| benbangert | how much would that be on Panther? | 11:07 |
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| benbangert | assuming an even spread | 11:07 |
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| etrepum | $1600-ish | 11:07 |
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| benbangert | hmmm | 11:07 |
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| benbangert | oh, on a side-note, I was thinking of getting a page up for Pylons ppl to pinpoint themselves, and maybe arrange BoF's or something to chat with other Pylons users | 11:07 |
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| benbangert | it'd be nice to at least be able to visually see on a map how many Pylons users are in the vicinity so I know if its worth planning a meet-up | 11:08 |
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| etrepum | what you can do is set up a free trial w/ them.. they normally do a week or two but you could probably get a month out of them | 11:08 |
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| creiht | That's cool | 11:08 |
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| creiht | something like frappr? | 11:08 |
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| Chairos | hey, anyone else here going to RailsConf? (yeah, I know. but it's for business.) | 11:08 |
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| benbangert | frappr? | 11:08 |
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| creiht | http://www.frappr.com/ | 11:08 |
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| benbangert | Chairos: the guy that sits next to me is | 11:08 |
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| etrepum | and then you can get them to send you a daily stats email that says what your mbps is per site and what the average so far in the month is | 11:08 |
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| etrepum | then you can use that to estimate what it's going to be overall and then negotiate the $/mbps that puts you where you want to be | 11:09 |
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| benbangert | creiht: neat, can I put it on another page? ;) | 11:09 |
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| benbangert | creiht: or is it stuck on theirs? | 11:10 |
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| creiht | Well I think you can have your own group on frapper | 11:10 |
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| creiht | I haven't really used it much | 11:10 |
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| creiht | just seen it on a couple of sites | 11:10 |
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| benbangert | yea, looks like you can plant it elsewhere | 11:10 |
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| benbangert | that'd work, awesome, I like it better when its done for me :) | 11:11 |
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| creiht | hehe | 11:11 |
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| creiht | It even tries to autodetect what city you are in | 11:11 |
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| benbangert | yea, I noticed that, pretty cool | 11:11 |
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| xorAxAx | gjh: ping | 11:19 |
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| gjh | xorAxAx: ping. | 11:35 |
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| xorAxAx | gjh: you made some usage of moin's wsgi capabilities, i lost the url to the page documenting it | 11:36 |
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| gjh | xorAxAx: http://bel-epa.com/library/pylons/pylonsandmoinmoin.html | 11:37 |
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| benbangert | gjh: that'd be nice in the cookbook.... ;) | 11:38 |
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| benbangert | gjh: you know if James signed a book deal yet? | 11:38 |
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| gjh | benbangert: I want to make sure it actually works first. :D | 11:39 |
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| benbangert | ah yes, there's always that | 11:39 |
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| gjh | benbangert: he hasn't mentioned anything. | 11:39 |
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| gjh | benbangert: I just set up a SPARQL endpoint mediated via a Pylons action. | 11:40 |
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| nathan^ | Using myghty, is there a good way to format a float with 2 decimal places using <% foo.price %> ? | 11:40 |
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| benbangert | nathan^: use the string replacement formatting | 11:41 |
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| benbangert | nathan^: I think its like <% "%0.2d" % foo.price %> | 11:41 |
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| benbangert | you'll need to look at the string formatting for %d | 11:41 |
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| gjh | xorAxAx: or .. http://bel-epa.com/wiki/MoinMoinWSGIcallable :-) | 11:45 |
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| benbangert | Chairos: around? | 11:49 |
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| Chairos | yeah | 11:49 |
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| Chairos | for a few more minutes | 11:50 |
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| benbangert | the proxy thing you noted with making the URL | 11:50 |
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| benbangert | the latest Routes changes how it gets its URL | 11:50 |
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| benbangert | can you see if it properly handles leaving off the port info and such? | 11:50 |
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| Chairos | sure, but I can't get around to it until tonight. | 11:50 |
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| benbangert | it properly goes to HTTP_HOST first, then back to SERVER_PORT and SERVER_NAME | 11:50 |
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| Chairos | can you remind me then? | 11:50 |
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| benbangert | I'm thinking HTTP_HOST will properly reflect the public facing URL that was used, so it should be ok | 11:51 |
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| Chairos | yeah, that's what I'd expect. | 11:51 |
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| * Chairos goes to run off to a class, and then to work to do some Apache optimizing. | 11:51 |
| benbangert | Chairos: http://routes.groovie.org/trac/routes/ticket/43 | 11:51 |
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| benbangert | thats the ticket that was fixed | 11:51 |
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| nathan^ | benbangert, that doesnt actually work | 11:57 |
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| nathan^ | In this case: | 11:57 |
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| nathan^ | <% "%0.2f" % itin.lpc.baseFare+itin.lpc.taxesEtc %> | 11:57 |
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| nathan^ | What happens is Error(TypeError): cannot concatenate 'str' and 'float' objects | 11:58 |
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| nathan^ | But | 12:03 |
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| nathan^ | It works when I add them in the python block for the page before I get there | 12:03 |
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| benbangert | nathan^: prolly cause in the prior page one of them is a float? | 12:06 |
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| nathan^ | benbangert, nah | 12:18 |
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| nathan^ | Either way I got it working the way I want. :) | 12:19 |
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| jesusphreak | Are the changes in 0.95 outlined anywhere? | 13:32 |
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| pjenvey_ | http://pylonshq.com/project/pylonshq/browser/Pylons/tags/0.9.5/CHANGELOG | 13:37 |
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| steg | *shakes fist at django* | 13:46 |
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| benbangert | I'm putting an announcement up soon | 13:48 |
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| jesusphreak | steg: heh, why do you say that? | 13:50 |
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| Chairos | benbangert: just tested the Routes trunk. | 13:50 |
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| Chairos | it works for me | 13:50 |
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| benbangert | Chairos: latest Routes release is fine | 13:50 |
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| benbangert | Chairos: Routes trunk has no changes over the current release | 13:51 |
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| Chairos | well, whatever | 13:51 |
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| Chairos | it works fine. | 13:51 |
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| benbangert | :) | 13:51 |
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| benbangert | cool | 13:51 |
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| jesusphreak | steg: I'm pretty frustrated with Django myself right now | 13:51 |
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| jesusphreak | I know I say that every few weeks, but after 0.96 came out, I decided to just get over it and do things the Django way | 13:51 |
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| jesusphreak | so I've been trying to write an app with it for the past few weeks and I keep wanting to slam my head against the table | 13:52 |
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| jesusphreak | there's just way too much built in | 13:52 |
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| steg | jesusphreak: Oh I just love being an angry nerd and django is convenient for hat | 13:53 |
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| steg | I don't actually have to use it :) | 13:53 |
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| steg | it's like gossiping | 13:53 |
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| steg | "and you know what else django did?" | 13:53 |
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| jesusphreak | heh | 13:54 |
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| steg | it's celebrity scandal for the python world | 13:54 |
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| jesusphreak | they've just got MVC so muddled that it kills me | 13:54 |
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| jesusphreak | you define view code inside your model | 13:54 |
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| * pjenvey_ wonders why jesusphreak keeps going back to django | 13:55 |
| steg | toscawidgets is the first form system I've found that actually has the flexibility to handle the forms I want to build | 13:55 |
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| steg | thanks in no small part to formencode, btw | 13:55 |
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| jesusphreak | pjenvey_: I really don't know...everytime I figure that I'll just get used to it and I never do | 13:55 |
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| steg | the two work well for each other | 13:55 |
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| benbangert | I want to get TW working with less effort in 0.9.6 | 13:56 |
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| steg | jesusphreak: hmm, I find myself not worrying too much about MVC | 13:56 |
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| jesusphreak | I don't tend to either, but you've got to have some kind of separation | 13:57 |
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| jesusphreak | the newforms stuff let's you generate forms from your model, well you do that and you inevitably want to tweak that form in some way | 13:57 |
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| steg | my widgets tend to know a fair amount about my model | 13:57 |
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| jesusphreak | so either you make something that looks ugly as hell or you create an entirely new form, and at that point you are duplicating info in both the form and the model | 13:58 |
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| benbangert | jesusphreak: and you can tweak individual widgets in TW | 13:58 |
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| jesusphreak | it gets really messy | 13:58 |
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| benbangert | jesusphreak: and you can start from the template the widget comes with | 13:58 |
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| benbangert | jesusphreak: thats the whole point of the widget browser actually, to look at the template a widget comes with and change it if necessary | 13:58 |
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| jesusphreak | does toscawidgets finally have some documentation? it has been awhile since I looked | 13:58 |
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| benbangert | he just put up a tutorial | 13:58 |
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| steg | you can override templates at any level too | 13:58 |
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| steg | you can have a parent widget render its child if it needs that control | 13:58 |
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| jesusphreak | oh damn | 13:58 |
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| steg | or you can ask the child to render itself | 13:58 |
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| jesusphreak | I'm defintely gonna have to look at this | 13:59 |
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| benbangert | http://tinyurl.com/yt9xhs | 13:59 |
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| steg | it's all done in regular template code | 13:59 |
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| benbangert | is the package | 13:59 |
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| benbangert | with a readme and such | 13:59 |
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| steg | benbangert: what's this? | 13:59 |
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| benbangert | its from this, http://groups.google.com/group/toscawidgets-discuss/browse_frm/thread/bc139de3383631d4 | 14:00 |
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| steg | oh I just checked my mail and found it | 14:00 |
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| steg | cool | 14:00 |
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| steg | I am not going to read it because then I'll find out I've got the wrong idea and get depressed | 14:01 |
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| jesusphreak | I think DHH was really right about a few things in designing Rails | 14:07 |
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| jesusphreak | he refuses to put login generators and authentication systems in the core and such...and it makes a lot of sense | 14:08 |
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| jesusphreak | you put something like that in the core and you can never make it flexible enough without making it really complex...so his mindset is to just make the framework itself efficient enough to where you can built custom unique systems like that within every app easily | 14:09 |
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| jesusphreak | he might be an egomaniac but he is absolutely right on that point | 14:09 |
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| CIA-22 | pylons: thejimmyg * r1946 /Pylons/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Updated the docs version number and changed the links to use the PylonsHQ site as an example | 15:07 |
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| CIA-22 | pylons: thejimmyg * r1947 /Pylons/trunk/pylons/controllers.py: Corrected some simple formatting problems | 15:25 |
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| rdesh | hey guys, is it preferred to use python 2.5 or 2.4 with pylons developmenT? | 15:41 |
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| Chairos | either one should work. | 15:41 |
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| * steg feels guilty because he just hacked the standard library wsgi server stuff so that it would play nicely with wingide | 15:43 |
| rdesh | Hm, okay thanks | 15:48 |
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| rdesh | also, going through the quickwiki tutorial, I did the easy_install of quickwiki okay, but when I run make-config QuickWiki test.ini, I get the following error: Some #directives are missing their corresponding #end ___ tag: cache | 15:48 |
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| rdesh | any ideas? | 15:48 |
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| ianbicking | rdesh: I think it's a problem with MyPackage.egg-info/paste_deploy_config.ini_tmpl | 15:50 |
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| ianbicking | there's a #cache line in it that Pylons creates, but Cheetah interprets as a directive | 15:50 |
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| rdesh | yikes... being a newbie i don't have much an idea what you're talking about :/ | 15:51 |
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| ianbicking | sorry... you might just want to skip that and copy over development.ini | 15:51 |
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| rdesh | the development.ini from the egg folder? | 15:52 |
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| rdesh | actually, i don't see one here | 15:52 |
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| CIA-22 | pylons: thejimmyg * r1948 /sandbox/examples/QuickWiki/tags/0.1.4/ (51 files in 14 dirs): Result of running paster create for the QuickWiki source | 15:58 |
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| pjenvey_ | rdesh - that'll be fixed in quickwiki 0.1.4, looks like james is preparing that as we speak | 16:04 |
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| pjenvey_ | fortunately | 16:04 |
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| rdesh | ah okay...just trying to make sense of this tutorial... skipped using the premade quickwiki and am "building it from scratch" as the tutorial shows | 16:04 |
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| pjenvey_ | http://pylonshq.com/project/pylonshq/wiki/FAQ#why-does-paster-make-config-raise-a-cheetah-parser-parseerror | 16:05 |
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| pjenvey_ | will fix it for now | 16:05 |
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| elefth | rdesh, perhaps you could skip cheetah and use mako anyway. | 16:11 |
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| rdesh | hi lef! | 16:11 |
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| elefth | hi :-) | 16:11 |
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| Chairos | elefth: cheetah was used by pastescript | 16:11 |
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| elefth | Chairos, oh | 16:11 |
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| elefth | I apologise, I thought he was talking about the standard template engine in Pylons. | 16:12 |
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| elefth | is it cheetah or something else by the way? I have long been using Mako. | 16:12 |
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| xorAxAx | it is still used by pastescript | 16:13 |
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| xorAxAx | if you dont publish an entrypoint yourself that hints pastescript not to use it | 16:13 |
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| rdesh | so mako is going to replace myghty? | 16:13 |
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| elefth | yes | 16:14 |
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| elefth | rdesh, but is is easy to start using mako as the standard template engine from now | 16:14 |
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| elefth | http://pylonshq.com/project/pylonshq/wiki/TowardsOnePointZero and look at "Switching to Mako" | 16:15 |
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| CIA-22 | pylons: pjenvey * r1949 /Pylons/trunk/ (CHANGELOG pylons/commands.py): fixed Python 2.3 compatibility in paster shell: dict.update only takes another dict | 16:15 |
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| CIA-22 | pylons: pjenvey * r1950 /Pylons/tags/0.9.5/ (6 files in 4 dirs): merged r1944:1949 from trunk, minus r1946's setup.cfg. integrated r1949's CHANGELOG | 16:21 |
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| CIA-22 | pylons: pjenvey * r1951 /Pylons/trunk/CHANGELOG: including the paster shell fix as part of 0.9.5 | 16:25 |
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| benbangert | elefth: plus, 0.9.5 pulls down Mako, so changing that one line is all thats needed :) | 16:44 |
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| elefth | sweet | 16:45 |
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| benbangert | I'm prepping the announcement now | 16:45 |
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| benbangert | luckily I just caught a 2.3 compat issue with paster shell | 16:45 |
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| benbangert | phrew | 16:45 |
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| elefth | oh is it not officially released yet? I emailed most of my friends yesterday that 0.9.5 got released... | 16:45 |
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| elefth | and that they should check out the site | 16:45 |
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| benbangert | well, I only saw 20 downloads of the egg | 16:46 |
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| benbangert | so most people haven't grabbed it or updated yet | 16:46 |
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| benbangert | the site got the announcement, yea | 16:46 |
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| benbangert | I had to re-upload the fixed egg | 16:46 |
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| benbangert | if your friends are using Python 2.3, they'll want the new one | 16:46 |
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| elefth | I don't think any of them uses 2.3 | 16:46 |
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| elefth | benbangert, ugh, this reminds me that I had written 80% of a short tutorial for using Alchemyware with Pylons. Where shall I place it on the wiki you think? | 16:47 |
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| benbangert | well, you'll want it on the new wiki | 16:48 |
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| benbangert | in the Pylons Community section | 16:48 |
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| benbangert | I'll add a sub-section for tutorials | 16:48 |
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| elefth | benbangert, so not somewhere in http://pylonshq.com/project/pylonshq/wiki/SqlAlchemyWithPylons ? | 16:49 |
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| benbangert | nope, no more pages should be added to the old wiki | 16:49 |
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| benbangert | everything should go to the new one | 16:49 |
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| * pjenvey_ goes to add a warning to the front page of the wiki to use confluence | 16:50 |
| benbangert | elefth: http://docs.pythonweb.org/display/pylonscommunity/Tutorials | 16:50 |
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| benbangert | elefth: add a page under there | 16:50 |
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| benbangert | people will be able to comment as well | 16:51 |
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| elefth | ok, it is not finished yet anyway. I will finish the docs for the dispatcher and then I'll complete the tutorial. I'll put it there, thanks :-) | 16:51 |
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| elefth | this "Python Web Documentation Project" is a good thing. | 16:52 |
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| TownCrier | pylons: WikiStart edited <http://pylonshq.com/project/pylonshq/wiki/WikiStart?version=218> | 16:53 |
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| benbangert | pjenvey_: still need to rig up an xml-rpc upload of the module API docs as well | 16:55 |
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| benbangert | hmmm | 16:55 |
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| pjenvey_ | yea | 16:56 |
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| pjenvey_ | then we can nuke them from svn | 16:56 |
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| pjenvey_ | add a ticket | 16:56 |
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| pjenvey_ | did that email import every finish? heh | 16:57 |
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| pjenvey_ | s/every/ever/ | 16:57 |
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| benbangert | pjenvey_: nope, I had to kill the proc | 16:57 |
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| benbangert | no idea what happened, maybe point it at a smaller box with only 100 messages at a time or something | 16:57 |
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| benbangert | pjenvey_: it can import mbox files.... | 16:57 |
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| benbangert | if you have it all in an mbox file | 16:57 |
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| pjenvey_ | i suspect it was thrasing | 16:58 |
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| pjenvey_ | i didn't look at the system CPU time though | 16:58 |
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| pjenvey_ | the process wasn't using much cpu | 16:58 |
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| pjenvey_ | ok back to what i was doing before you found that bug | 16:59 |
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| pjenvey_ | apparently one of the twitter developers is bad mouthing rails | 16:59 |
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| benbangert | oh, I saw that, in an interview or something, right? | 16:59 |
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| pjenvey_ | ya | 16:59 |
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| * pjenvey_ At this | 17:00 |
| * pjenvey_ point in time there’s no facility in Rails to talk to more than one | 17:00 |
| * pjenvey_ database at a time. | 17:00 |
| * pjenvey_ If you’re looking to deploy a big web application | 17:01 |
| * pjenvey_ and you’re language-agnostic, realize that the same operation in Ruby | 17:01 |
| * pjenvey_ will take less time in Python. | 17:01 |
| benbangert | lol | 17:01 |
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| triplah_w | you guys seen moofx ? | 17:31 |
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| CIA-22 | pylons: thejimmyg * r1952 /Pylons/trunk/docs/quick_wiki.txt: Updates for the 0.9.5 release | 17:43 |
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| CIA-22 | pylons: thejimmyg * r1953 /sandbox/examples/QuickWiki/tags/0.1.4/ (21 files in 10 dirs): Changes resulting from following the new QuickWiki tutorial | 17:44 |
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| matt_good | huh, apparently I can't make a controller called "setup" | 17:44 |
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| matt_good | "error: invalid command 'controller'" | 17:44 |
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| matt_good | works with other names though | 17:45 |
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| CIA-22 | pylons: thejimmyg * r1954 /Pylons/trunk/docs/install.txt: Updated the instructions for 0.9.5 to avoid an issue where easy_install detects the wrong version | 17:49 |
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| pjenvey_ | paster controller setup.. that's an odd one | 18:13 |
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| windle | ianbicking: can you svn up buildutils and put up a new release? the dev version is the only one that works on Windows | 18:14 |
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| windle | pjenvey_: hmm? | 18:14 |
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| * pjenvey_ matt_good: huh, apparently I can't make a controller called "setup" | 18:14 |
| * pjenvey_ [5:44pm] matt_good: "error: invalid command 'controller'" | 18:14 |
| windle | maybe he's not in the right directory? | 18:15 |
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| pjenvey_ | no, i just reproduced it | 18:15 |
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| windle | oh | 18:15 |
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| pjenvey_ | pretty strange | 18:15 |
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| pjenvey_ | oh that's a nice one | 18:18 |
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| pjenvey_ | we try to import 'setup' to make sure the controller name doesn't clash | 18:18 |
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| pjenvey_ | which imports your project's setup.py | 18:19 |
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| pjenvey_ | which does a sys.exit with "no commands supplied" as if you ran "python setup.py" | 18:19 |
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| pjenvey_ | hate teh relative imports | 18:19 |
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| windle | yup | 18:22 |
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| CIA-22 | pylons: pjenvey * r1955 /Pylons/trunk/ (CHANGELOG pylons/commands.py): | 18:27 |
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| CIA-22 | pylons: allow creation of controllers named 'setup' via paster controller | 18:27 |
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| CIA-22 | pylons: Reported by Matt Good | 18:27 |
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| windle | pjenvey_: http://weblog.lonelylion.com/2007/04/12/twitters-been-served/ | 18:31 |
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| TownCrier | pylons: Ticket #201 (Make the response object available in __after__) updated <http://pylonshq.com/project/pylonshq/ticket/201#comment:4> | 18:31 |
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| pjenvey_ | DHH blogged a reply | 18:32 |
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| windle | yea | 18:32 |
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| windle | I like Chris's take on it | 18:32 |
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| pjenvey_ | looked like the comments to it were turning into a bitchfest | 18:32 |
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| windle | its hilarious | 18:32 |
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| pjenvey_ | oh. that's the link to it, duh | 18:32 |
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| windle | "Open source…where the source is open, and the mouths are closed." | 18:32 |
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| TownCrier | pylons: Ticket #163 (QuickWiki cannot be "paste"d ->) closed <http://pylonshq.com/project/pylonshq/ticket/163#comment:9> | 20:41 |
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| pjenvey__ | yay new quickwiki | 21:28 |
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| pjenvey__ | no more cheetah problems | 21:28 |
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| Niosop | evening | 21:30 |
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| Niosop | I've been working w/ Django a lot lately, and just started playing w/ pylons. I was wondering if anyone could give me a couple of pros/cons of pylons compared to django? | 21:31 |
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| Chairos | we have a guy called jesusphreak who would LOVE to do that. :D | 21:33 |
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| Chairos | basically, Pylons is a hell of a lot more flexible. | 21:33 |
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| Chairos | You have two ORMs to choose from, plus any number of non-ORM data-storage techniques. | 21:33 |
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| Chairos | You can use most any template language you want, including one that's a clone of Django's. | 21:34 |
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| Chairos | Pylons apps are easier to deploy than Django apps. | 21:34 |
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| Niosop | nod, noticed that. The ability to use SA and a wide assortment of templates is what made me look at it in the first place. | 21:34 |
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| Chairos | The biggest downside is that the Pylons community is a lot smaller than the Django community. | 21:34 |
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| Niosop | How hard is mod_python integration? I saw a doc on it, and it didn't look TOO difficult, but is it that easy in practice? | 21:35 |
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| Chairos | another occasional downside is that Pylons is constructed from a lot of parts: Paste, Beaker, Routes, etc... and docs are sometimes spread out in places you wouldn't expect. | 21:35 |
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| Chairos | It's fairly easy. | 21:35 |
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| Chairos | But I wouldn't recommend it. | 21:35 |
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| Niosop | better solution? | 21:35 |
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| Chairos | It's the second-least efficient method of deploying apps, just ahead of plain-old CGI. | 21:35 |
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| Niosop | fcgi/scgi? | 21:36 |
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| Chairos | in increasingly-better order, I would recommend SCGI, FastCGI, and mod_proxying to an appserver | 21:36 |
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| Chairos | pylonshq.com is in fact a Pylons app; it used to run with mod_python and now runs with the mod_proxy solution. | 21:36 |
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| Chairos | turnthepage.org is a pylons app I wrote; I used to run it with FastCGI, and like pylonshq, I've switched to mod_proxy, using CherryPy's WSGI appserver. | 21:37 |
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| Niosop | what's it proxying to? | 21:37 |
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| Niosop | ahh, cherrypy? | 21:37 |
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| Chairos | a tiny HTTP server based off SimpleHTTPServer in the standard library. | 21:37 |
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| Niosop | nod | 21:37 |
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| Chairos | WSGI is tremendously useful in that you can deploy it any number of ways. | 21:37 |
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| Niosop | so you run cherrypy on some port, and use mod_proxy to redirect traffic to that port? | 21:38 |
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| Chairos | there's at least three standalone appservers for it, three FastCGI interfaces, including one with C code to make it faster, two SCGI interfaces, a mod_python interface, an IIS interface, and an AJP interface | 21:38 |
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| Chairos | Niosop: it's not technically cherrypy; it's just a WSGI appserver that ships WITH cherrypy. | 21:38 |
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| Niosop | The only thing I really need to be able to do is to run multiple apps on the same server using named virtual hosts in apache. | 21:38 |
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| Chairos | but yes | 21:38 |
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| Chairos | I do that. | 21:38 |
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| Chairos | I have two apps running on my server right now in virtual hosts | 21:39 |
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| Chairos | I'll show you what the apache config looks like, if you want | 21:39 |
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| Niosop | yeah, that would be handy :) | 21:39 |
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| Niosop | What distro? | 21:39 |
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| Chairos | debian testing | 21:39 |
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| Niosop | cool, same here, so shouldn't be an issue | 21:39 |
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| lisppaste5 | Chairos pasted "apache config" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/39646 | 21:40 |
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| Chairos | the other app on the server has an identical apache config, except it runs on port 5000 | 21:41 |
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| Chairos | needless to say, my firewall blocks actual access to the appservers; you have to go through apache. | 21:41 |
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| Chairos | you could also use lighttpd, or a proxy like ngnix or squid in front | 21:42 |
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| Niosop | nod. Would probably use apache or lighttpd for serving static files. | 21:43 |
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| Chairos | for that particular app, I only have one static file, and it has to be explicitely downloaded, so I don't bother. | 21:44 |
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| Chairos | but, yeah, you can do that. | 21:44 |
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| Niosop | Any nice middleware for caching in pylons? Looks like just using the g global would work pretty well as a query/object type cache. | 21:44 |
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| Chairos | there's much better caching built in. | 21:45 |
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| Chairos | http://pylonshq.com/docs/0.9.4.1/caching.html | 21:45 |
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| Niosop | nice :) | 21:45 |
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| Chairos | it uses DBM files by default, but it can also cache in memory, or to pickle files, or it can use memcache. | 21:45 |
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| Chairos | it can also use all those options for sessions, though there the pickle files are the default, to make it easy to expire old sessions by having a cronjob delete old files. | 21:45 |
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| Niosop | cool. I notice it mentions using Myghty's container API for caching, would it still be available if using mako? | 21:46 |
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| Niosop | not sure if the container API is tied to the template system or not | 21:47 |
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| pjenvey__ | it's not | 21:47 |
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| Niosop | not available or not tied? | 21:47 |
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| pjenvey__ | not tied | 21:47 |
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| Niosop | ok, cool :) | 21:47 |
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| Niosop | looks like I might be able to move over to pylons pretty smoothly then. | 21:48 |
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| Chairos | yeah, the container api is part of a package called MyghtyUtils that was factored out of Myghty a while back. | 21:48 |
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| Chairos | because Myghty started life as a semi-framework in its own right, not just a templating system. | 21:49 |
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| Chairos | if you've heard of Perl's HTML::Mason, it was basically similar. | 21:49 |
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| Niosop | no, I managed to dodge Perl in my trek through programming languages :) | 21:49 |
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| Chairos | good lad | 21:49 |
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| pjenvey__ | yea, nice! | 21:50 |
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| pjenvey__ | don't look back | 21:50 |
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| Chairos | I do regret dropping Scheme, though. | 21:50 |
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| Niosop | I'm pretty happy w/ Python now. C# was nice for a while, but moved to python back when mono was pretty unstable. | 21:52 |
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| Niosop | now if only SQL Alchemy or SQL Object supported Informix, lol | 21:55 |
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| pjenvey__ | there's a ticket for it | 21:57 |
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| pjenvey__ | http://www.sqlalchemy.org/trac/ticket/336 | 21:57 |
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| pjenvey__ | ooh and a patch | 21:57 |
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| Niosop | Nice. Might be enough, I just want basic read support, won't do any writing to the DB. | 21:58 |
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| Niosop | and if not, no biggy, since it's just basic queries, InformixDB alone would be enough. | 21:59 |
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